How Big Law Firms Treat Employees

I am currently working 2 jobs to make ends meet and every evening I head over to 24 hour fitness to get a good work out. Over the years I have always seen various different characters at the gym: The desperate housewife, the anorexic teenage girls and the juice monkeys on steroids.

After I finish the treadmill or do cardio, I usually head over straight to the free weights. I am a pretty big guy, and I bench over 345 lbs. Sometimes, I ask others for help as a spotter or someone will ask me to spot them doing chest presses. There is one guy at the gym who has asked me to help him and spot him while he is on the bench press. I've seen him a couple times before at the gym, and last night I saw his duffle bag with a "name tag" attached. He had just come back from a trade show in Las Vegas, and I told him that I would always go to trade shows at the Bellagio or The Rio at my old job.  Many people think that Las Vegas makes all its money from gambling, shows and clubs, but the reality is that the real money comes from trade shows. Many trade shows in manufacturing, IT, solar energy, fashion, merchandising, and sports competitions are held in Las Vegas.


As we started conversing, he told me more about his occupation and education. He was an executive VP for a solar energy company and a former attorney. His name was Mike* the mergers and acquisitions attorney. He went to UCLA for undergraduate and went to a top 50 law school in the Washington DC area. He worked in a big law firm for 5 years and then in house for a finance company. He eventually left and joined a solar energy company. I asked him why he left the legal profession, and we talked for a good 20-30 minutes at the gym.  He gave me an insiders look at how big law firms work. This is how the Question and Answer session went with Mike...

Q.   Tell me a little bit about your background, where did you go to college, law school?

A.    I went to UCLA and majored in History and Political Science. After graduating, I got a partial scholarship and so I went to (Law school ranked 30-50 in US News in the Washington DC area)

Q.   Where did you go when you graduated? How did you end up in Solar Energy?

A.    I went to work for Howe, Dewey, Blowe, Dixon, Cox LLP* in NYC .  They have offices all around the country and I went to work in the mergers and acquisitions department. I started off an as associate in corporate finance in my summer internships, but switched when I started as an associate. I left the law practice and it was the best decision of my life.

Q.   How long were you at your first job? Did you like it there?

A.   I lasted 5 years and once my student loans were paid off, I got the hell out. It was demoralizing, working like a dog doing mundane work and my vitality was slipping day by day. The hours and stress were killing me.

Q.   How many hours a week did you work? What was so stressful?

A.   I got in the office at 8:00 am and left at 10:00 pm every day, plus I would also work one day on the weekends. I would work about 70-80 hours a week. The stress was unbelievable, especially coming from the senior associates and partners in the firm. Everyone was biting eachothers heads off to get ahead. The senior associates viewed you as their competition to become partner and they would treat new associates like slave labor.

Q. Thats interesting, weren't  you aware of any of this before you started? Were you surprised by anything?

A.  No, my law firm showed us brochures with smiling associates, promised us interesting work, and the infamous "work life balance" bullshit. It was shocking, because you are basically their slave and then they send you back to your old law school to recruit new people.

Q. What happend when you left? Did your co workers feel the same or did they leave?

A.  I ended up working for a small private equity firm as an in house attorney.  Everyone I know who works in biglaw is miserable. They are only doing it for the money. I was smart enough to live frugally and save some money. There is a fairly high attrition in big law firms between the 2-5 years. Many take jobs in house or smaller firms for a better lifestyle. The partnership track is virtually non existent in many of these big corporate law firms. Out of all 30 of the associates who started at my firm when I graduated, only 2 are remaining. 

Q. I am actually a graduate of a Paralegal program. What was life like for the Paralegals?

A.   The paralegals worked insane hours, too. I knew one paralegal making over $100,000 a year. She was with the firm for over 14 years but worked even longer hours than me. From what I understand she would pull all nighters so often, she had dry cleaning delivered to the office. That's how bad it was.

Q.  So how did you end up in Solar Energy?

A.  One of the clients at the finance firm had a start up that had many investors. I knew that solar energy was a rapidly growing industry, and so I left my job as an attorney so I could see what else is out there.

Q.  I see, would you recommend someone like me to get into a field like solar energy? I am frustrated that I can't find a Paralegal job anywhere.

A.  Stay as far away from the legal profession as possible and be thankful that you found out sooner than later that the legal profession isn't as glamourous as it seems. I graduated during the tech boom and a lot has changed since then. We are now outsourcing legal jobs to India and those big firm jobs are vanishing. The future of the legal profession is very uncertain. Don't waste your time looking for paralegal jobs, go back to business. In the long term, the money in the legal profession really isn't there, since most people never make partner. Even I wish I got an MBA instead of a JD, but what's done is done. Live and Learn.
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I have had many random conversations at the gym, but I feel so blessed to have met this guy. He gave me a real honest view of what life is like in a big law firm and he even told me about a professional solar energy association trade show that I should visit, and inquire about employment opportunities. This was such an amazing and interesting conversation that I had with him, so I decided to post the highlights of my conversation on my blog. If you want to know how big law employees feel inside their firms, just watch the video above!

- The Poor Paralegal


* name has been changed to protect privacy

Sad Letter

After my last post, I received scores of e mails and letters from unemployed and underemployed legal professionals. Many of them told me how hard it is getting through every day with massive student loans, not having a job and dealing with financial hardships.

Many recent law school graduates, attorneys and paralegals all sent me sad letters about their own own personal struggles and thoughts about suicide. Many of them are now grown adults in their late 20's and 30's, and are living back at home with mom and dad. A lot of them have defaulted on their student loans and are working minimum wage jobs or odd jobs just to make ends meet. They talk about how horrible it is to get ridiculed and made fun of at their jobs where they are "underemployed" and how they can't take it anymore.

One letter really hit me hard.

It was from a unemployed graduate of a third tier law school in the NYC area, who was now working in the operations warehouse of a major department store. She told me about how her parents were really strict with her growing up and they wanted her to be a successful professional. She got a scholarship to law school, but could not find any law job after she graduated in 2009. She struggled and found a warehouse job that pays her $13 bucks an hour. She constantly gets ridiculed from other co workers about having a JD, her parents, and told me that she has a gun and wanted to kill herself last night before her 27th birthday.

I told her to instant message me on AIM and we ended up talking for about 3 1/2 hours last night. She goes to bed every night crying because she hates being made fun of and being underemployed. She even tried to burn her law degree until her mother stopped her from lighting her degree on fire. She hates the uncomfortable feelings and depression she feels through cognitive dissonance of attending law school in the first place.

I usually don't get too personal on my blog, but I went on to tell this girl that everyone has problems but no matter how bad things can get in her life, that she should never ever pick up the gun she has at home. I told her about about my own personal struggles and how she has to maintain a positive attitude and things will get better. My father was diagnosed with cancer on my 18th birthday right after I graduated high school and I was taking care of him and tube feeding him for two years until he lost his battle with cancer. Right after my dad died, my mom had a major heart attack and it is very difficult.  I am the only son, my mom is a widow and I have 4 sisters. You can imagine how much pressure I have weighing down on my shoulders.

I told this girl that I know it's not easy to deal with her 13 dollar an hour job, but things will get better for her. I worked whatever jobs I could to get through college, and I was able to find a decent paying job after college. I talked to her again on messenger just a little while ago, and she was doing much better and is remaining positive that things will get better.

When my father died of cancer, the social workers gave me some of the best advice ever...

They told me, "Whatever you lose in life, you get it back later on in life. Some years of your life are the questions and some years of your life are the answers."

If anyone reading this is feeling very sad, depressed or having suicidal thoughts, please call

The National Suicide Prevention Hotline
1-800-273-8255

Be Well...

-The Poor Paralegal

WARNING TO UNDERGRADUATE STUDENTS

According to CBS MoneyWatch, there are   5 reasons not to get a law degree !

These five reasons are very articulately expressed and raises questions on whether or not many pre law students know about what they are getting themselves into. Many law schools misrepresent their employment figures, there is a glut of attorneys, the tuition is expensive, and the opportunity costs do not offer a solid ROI.

One of the people who commented on the article is a graduate of a Top 10 law school in the country. She even goes on to discuss the grim financial realities for law school graduates and has a blunt way of describing the situation,

 "If people knew just how horrendous the employment situation was at my law school, one of the top ten in the nation, they would not even think of going to a 3rd or 4th tier law school, i.e., outside the top 100...

Again, this is happening at a top ten law school, where, with a lot of luck, I have managed to land the job I wanted. If you can get into a top fourteen law school (fourteen has historically been the magic number), law school is probably still a gamble worth taking. A top-fifty, tier one school might also make sense if you can beat out 75-90% of your peers there. But whomever is thinking of going to a 3rd or 4th tier school, I would seriously advise to reconsider. You will struggle madly for three years, only to realize at graduation that you have just been digging your own financial grave."

Speaking of graves, the BLS published its January jobs report today, with only a grave 36,000 jobs created last month. It seems that much of the data was not properly recorded since there was a massive snow storm and blizzard in the midwest that has caused so much havoc and many employers did not get a chance to submit their responses to the BLS survey. Ironically, the US unemployment rate dropped to 9 % from 9.4% in December. This is the lowest level of unemployment in the past 21 months, so hopefully the worst of the "Great Recession" is over!

Many people are still unemployed and frustrated with their financial situation. This not only applies to unemployed legal professionals, but also everyone in corporate America across the nation. Many are scared and frustrated of the what the future will bring. Many don't know how to pay rent, put food on the table, or provide for their families. Sadly, many are even turning to suicide. To all the undergraduate students reading this blog, please think long and hard before taking out massive student loans to gamble away your future.

Recently, on other student loan scamblogs, I have read about young people who talk about suicide. It is very scary and not a laughing matter. You may think I am just a poor unemployed paralegal, but I don't want you to end up contemplating suicide because of your own financial difficulties from legal education. Even if you are an undergraduate who has a lot of student loans and can't get a job after college, don't run away to law school as an "Escape"! Hiding in school for 3 more years, deferring your undergrad loans and taking on more debt won't make your life any easier. You may think it will be tough to pay back loans and struggle financially, but taking out 200k in law school debt from a non elite law school won't solve your problems. Sure, you can defer your loans, but it all catches up to you.

Don't be afraid of the joining the real world after college and remember, there is always a way out of your problems!

-The Poor Paralegal

Law School Applications Decline 12.5%

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/a-sign-of-the-recovery-law-school-applications-fall/?partner=rss&emc=rss

It looks like the word is getting out from all of us in the scam blog universe that legal education is not a good choice for many college students seeking a rewarding profession. Many Economists forecast that the US economy will create 2.2-2.4 million new jobs this year, more than the 1.1 million created in 2010. This is a great improvement compared to 4.8 million job losses in 2009 and 3.6 million job losses in 2008. Some say that with the economy rebounding and more hiring anticipated in the new few quarters, that college students will get jobs instead of seeking shelter in law school to ride out the recession.

In fact, the number of people taking the LSAT exam have fallen drastically. The number of students taking the LSAT in December 2010 fell 16.5%!

I think the real reason why people are staying away from law school is because there is so much information available on the web from law school bloggers, news articles in The New York Times, and basically the ugly realities of the legal profession are now out there for everyone to see!

To all you college seniors out there:  Don't be fooled by the glossy brochures,  bogus employment statistics and false promises that law schools and paralegal schools give you, its nothing but lies!

Take a long time to figure out your career goals!

-The Poor Paralegal

Question for Law school Graduates & Legal Professionals...

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/podcast_interview_episode_3/

The recent article in the ABA Journal will likely give you a sardonic laugh..

Do these people think that we are lying? Of course, the scambloggers are RIGHT ABOUT LAW SCHOOL! Do you think they are just "making up stories" about having $200,000 in loans, 10 dollar an hour jobs and struggling to live with their parents in their 30's? Do you think that they are just bashing law schools, LSAT prep course companies and for profit colleges that offer Paralegal training because they have nothing else better to do with their time?

Law school, Paralegal school, Legal Studies, etc, it's all fucking bullshit!

There are no jobs in this shitty profession, and so I only have one question for all you law school students, recent graduates and frustrated attorneys/paralegals:

If you had to do it all over again, what would you do differently? What else would you have chosen as a major in college? Instead of joining the legal profession, what other careers and fields would you have chosen?

Please post your responses on the "comments" section! (The only sane response I've found online is the video of the intelligent man in the video above.) So all of you law students, attorneys and paralegals, please post your comments below. Please, even leave a comment  anonymously! I would love to hear from everyone!

-The Poor Paralegal

Who is Mailaccount63?

I don't have a Myspace or a Facebook. I've always made sure I set boundaries in the workplace, because I didn't want to mix personal and professional.

I enjoy websites such as Yahoo Answers, Craigslist, and Meetup.com. I consider these three websites to be "productive" social networking, because they are useful. On these great sites you can find answers, get advice, find things on Craigslist, and socialize on Meetup.com.

My favorite has always been Yahoo Answers. There are many questions and answers on the legal and careers section of Yahoo Answers, and one of the writers has some great insight. There is one attorney in particular on Yahoo Answers whose screen name is MAILACCOUNT63

I don't know if Mailaccount63 is a male or female, but this writer has some interesting discernment on the legal profession. I was going through Yahoo Answers and I found this great answer from a student interested in becoming a Paralegal:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AunzJUuEOwdkKPygrsyzq5Hty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20101019074840AAX0m4s


Mailaccount63 goes on to say,

"..Even if you do finish law school, you won't be able to find a job when you are done. Since this vocational field is shrinking (at an alarming rate), many new attorneys/lawyers are, themselves, having to work "down" as Paralegals, Legal Assistants, Legal Secretaries, Bailiffs, Court Reporters, etc, etc, to simply try to keep some of their bills paid <<this would be your competition. And the competition is fierce in TODAY's job market!!


Now... the law schools know this, but they won't tell you the truth >that the job market/economy is just SATURATED with way too many Legal Professionals. Instead the schools will feed you a fairytale and will LIE to you. The root of the problem is we already have too many law schools. We are STILL in a Recession, and the schools are fighting for their own survival - they will tell students anything to get to the students' money. (Which is why they won't tell you the truth about the job market for the field of Law.) And these schools continue to recruit and churn out even more graduates.............Remember>>> law schools are BUSINESSES - their TOP concern is making money for themselves.


>>>>>THE #1 MOST IMPORTANT THING (and I can't stress this enough>>>): You ESPECIALLY have to beware of the BOGUS, INFLATED law school salary/job stats given out by >law schools< (AND by the U.S. Bureau of Labor)!!***<<<<<.."

Mailaccount63  is not giving legal advice, nor is he/she forming an Attorney -Client relationship. Mailaccount63 is just giving his/her own opinion and answers based upon personal experience, or as it says:

"life
been there - done that
have actually worked in the field of Law for twelve years
started at the very bottom rung and clawed my way up
now actually am a CURRENT employee of a law school, so I KNOW and see (too much?!?)
don't have time to watch those TV law shows - the couple that I did watch weren't realistic, at all
TV glamorizes the field of Law - Reminder: TV is FICTION!!! - do your research first! - the field of Law is actually a lot of paperwork and politics - and law school is VERY expensive, so know what you are getting into
wish someone would have warned ME sooner
so now I TRY to warn and help others (that actually want to know, will listen and not get defensive)
I am simply tired of watching students getting ripped off by law schools
so many students have come to me- upset because they could not find employment- I am just trying to warn as many as I can, and trying to fulfill a promise
I am answering you in good faith."


Mailaccount63 has given some of the best insight for anyone who doesn't believe the harsh reality of these blogs exposing the ugly truth about the legal profession. Anyone contemplating law school or legal education should really read the Q&A homepage of Mailaccount63 on Yahoo Answers. The national debt, globalization and the US Debt also play a big role in the future of the legal profession, just watch the video above!


I don't know who you are Mailaccount63, but if you have a blog, please send us a link!

-The Poor Paralegal

Don't Take Out Student Loans

There has been major circulation of The New York Times article by David Segal! This riveting story covers the law school scam and I have received many e mails from prospective paralegal students, parents, and unemployed professionals.

I have many parents asking me if there children should study paralegal studies or get a degree in the field. One girl even told me she is one signature away from taking out $45,000 in student loan debt to go to a for profit school to become a Paralegal.

DO NOT GO INTO DEBT! DO NOT TAKE OUT STUDENT LOANS! IT WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE MISERABLE BEYOND REPAIR!

You will not be able to buy a house, get married, have children and live a life that you have always wanted to live as a working professional. If you are hell bent on going on for more education, go to a local cheap state institution for any sort of training, whether it be vocational or grad school.

All of these scam bloggers such as Third Tier Reality, But I Did Everything Right, Subprime JD, Shilling Me Softly, Lawschoolisascam.com, First Tier toilet and the Jobless Juris Doctor do not lie!

Just like David Segal reported in his story, the odds of getting a law job paying $160,000 a year is like winning the lottery, the same thing goes for trying to find a paralegal job that pays $60,000 a year.

Going into debt is just not worth it!

-The Poor Paralegal